tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post5036875108330155104..comments2023-10-18T02:03:42.145-07:00Comments on LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: When Leaving is the Right Thing to DoUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger99125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-31655939762707157882008-03-06T10:39:00.000-08:002008-03-06T10:39:00.000-08:00Growing up in an alternate, parallel, or counter-c...Growing up in an alternate, parallel, or counter-culture is not always a bad thing. Having the courage of your convictions when not shared by others - invaluable! Although it was often very painful to grow up this way, I knew that if I required my kids to think carefully and reject a lot of what their peers were doing, it would not hurt them. And although I'm still in a Laestadian church, I've 'divorced' myself from some of the erroneous assumptions and beliefs that came along with it.<br><br>My mom had a good story about learning to make homemade bread. My grandmother taught her to never use a knife when dividing the bread dough, and my mother thought it was because it would ruin the dough in some way. It wasn't until years later that she realized it was because her mother didn't want her to cut herself with the knife, and nothing to do with how the bread would turn out. It was a false assumption.<br><br>That's the problem with the 'traditions of men' and why they deserve to be examined...!<br><br>Good topic, Free.Norahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-5827190162930821852008-03-06T18:06:00.000-08:002008-03-06T18:06:00.000-08:00In some ways I think leaving the OALC is harder th...In some ways I think leaving the OALC is harder than a divorce. A divorce is the undoing of a choice one makes; leaving the OALC, especially having been born and raised in it, is the undoing of something in which we had no choice. Combine that with no support from long time friends and family!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-65022352313158524292008-03-07T05:04:00.000-08:002008-03-07T05:04:00.000-08:00Free, I hope at some point I can be grateful for m...Free, I hope at some point I can be grateful for my childhood in the OALC. That's a tough one for me. I was discouraged from doing so many harmless activities. I was raised with so many unnecessary fears. Things were confusing - it didn't matter what the behavior, as long as people were going to church, they were welcomed and those behaviors were normalized. On the flipside, otherwise decent people were "worldly". I work at accepting the past and what I cannot change, but haven't come so far as to feel grateful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-73216433626201012552008-03-07T07:37:00.000-08:002008-03-07T07:37:00.000-08:00Well, gratitude isn't easy for me, either. I s...Well, gratitude isn't easy for me, either. I still feel resentment . . . not much anymore for what I was denied as a child, but for what my own children are now denied. <br><br>I think anger toward any group that is oppressive, disallows dissent, discourages family bonds, and demands exclusivism is <a rel="nofollow">an appropriate and healthy emotion.</a><br><br>The use of that powerful emotion is the key. It can destroy us with bitterness, or energize us to create new lives.Free2bmenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-50533689245258960032008-03-07T10:41:00.000-08:002008-03-07T10:41:00.000-08:00On one hand, I have moved on significantly from th...On one hand, I have moved on significantly from the resentment I had at being raised Laestadian, and I do appreciate some of the Laestadian aspects of my upbringing. On the other hand, I still wouldn't choose to have been brought up Laestadian.<br><br>It can also be confusing to identify what exactly was Laestadian about ones upbringing and what was just your particular family's situation. The way we turn out isn't just the result of Laestadianism--you could be just as much a social butterfly or a nerd or anything else had you been raised non-Laestadian.Ilmarinennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-69646814649736620532008-03-07T12:48:00.000-08:002008-03-07T12:48:00.000-08:00I don't post much about my resentment and ange...I don't post much about my resentment and anger. It seems to trigger a backlash of emotion, and I just try to let it go, to move forward.<br><br>I know I had an immense amount of resentment toward the church and certain individuals when I left. The anger spilled out toward organized religion in general, and toward God. I made the mistake of tarring them all with the same brush at first. I thought ALL Christians were hypocrites (not the ones associated with the LLL church). I still had the scornful attitude toward "worldly" churches that I learned in the LLC, but I didn't see the LLC church as something I wanted either.<br><br>But anytime I discussed my anger, it was always turned back around on me..."it's a matter of the heart. Your heart isn't in the right place, then. You have a problem. You're the problem. You need to come back to church and God will help you. You should be unhappy." I resented that! I resented that I wasn't heard. I was always the problem. The only thing that mattered was that I was outside the box.<br><br>Honestly, there are things that I am glad I learned there, but I regret growing up with so much fear, and feeling so much different from everyone else. I felt like a social misfit all my life, and I believe a good part of that comes from the overprotection I lived with.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-17658304942906315222008-03-10T07:06:00.000-07:002008-03-10T07:06:00.000-07:00Did you know?Kentucky Representative Tim Couch fil...Did you know?<br><br>Kentucky Representative Tim Couch filed a bill this week to make anonymous posting online illegal.<br><br>Doubt that this will make it far. It would be interesting to see how many people would still be willing to post. I don't think there would be ten.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-70635548079583830022008-03-10T16:05:00.000-07:002008-03-10T16:05:00.000-07:00LLLreader sez: If I had to reveal my idenity in o...LLLreader sez: If I had to reveal my idenity in order to post, I would do it in a heartbeat!! I'm not ashamed of anything I have ever said here over the years (little bit embarrassed about my spelling). Those years of being afraid of "what will people think" are long gone Pal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-91788836325960872972008-03-12T23:30:00.000-07:002008-03-12T23:30:00.000-07:00Aahhhh LLLreader. I aspire to your contentment :)Aahhhh LLLreader. I aspire to your contentment :)hp3noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-25657498149502864712008-03-13T00:50:00.000-07:002008-03-13T00:50:00.000-07:00When I first discovered this blog, I posted using ...When I first discovered this blog, I posted using my given name, because like LLLreader I felt I had nothing to hide and certainly nothing to be ashamed of. I realized eventually however, that it could cause a serious ruckus in my family if it were discovered that I am actively participating on this "antiOALC" blog, and I didn't want to cause a rift. Some know anyway but my mom probably does not and I don't want her to. The harmony that exists in my "mixed" family (actives and ex'es) is a fragile thing and I do not want to jeopardize it. I've generated my share of confrontation! Here's to peace and harmony. Many Trails HomeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-10893385680274634922008-03-16T13:51:00.000-07:002008-03-16T13:51:00.000-07:00To MTH from LLLreader--if my wonderful Mom were st...To MTH from LLLreader--if my wonderful Mom were still alive, I would be VERY careful about what I said here. She cared so much about "what people thought" that I just wouldn't bring her any discomfort through voicing my opinions. I'm a lucky one--my family members that are in the OALC "love me anyway", so I am free to yak away! I know it's different for everyone--we protect the people we love--and that's only right. Thank you MTH.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-50814832154112356132008-03-16T22:13:00.000-07:002008-03-16T22:13:00.000-07:00Could someone tell me who the current preachers ar...Could someone tell me who the current preachers are at the OALC?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-71962891216569089112008-03-16T23:04:00.000-07:002008-03-16T23:04:00.000-07:00Why the Sam Hill do you want to know that? I used ...Why the Sam Hill do you want to know that? I used to be a member but been gone several years. I could post many of their names, but not sure what purpose that would serve....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-24310366409077051172008-03-17T10:18:00.000-07:002008-03-17T10:18:00.000-07:00If I were to ask for the name of the minister at t...If I were to ask for the name of the minister at the Baptist church down the street from me, would you have the same kind of answer for me? Lighten up Buddy! You may have left the church, but you are hanging on to the defensive attitude. My question is innnocent. An elderly friend who who had many friends in both the Hockinson and Brush Prairie churches was reminising and wondered if any of the families she knows have produced any preachers. Nothing sinister here. Geez!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-17602721432792681872008-03-17T17:23:00.000-07:002008-03-17T17:23:00.000-07:00I didnt know I sounded THAT bad!Does everyone thin...I didnt know I sounded THAT bad!<br>Does everyone think the names should be posted? Please respond. I believe the OALCers would consider that persecution, but does that matter?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-71564466582526002702008-03-18T09:35:00.000-07:002008-03-18T09:35:00.000-07:00I don't see what the big deal is, but I know t...I don't see what the big deal is, but I know that in the church it seems like its always supposed to be hush hush when someone is chosen to be a preacher. Like it would be bragging or something? I don't know. They don't like to advertise that information for some reason.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-12681544524005109922008-03-18T10:31:00.000-07:002008-03-18T10:31:00.000-07:00Since when are the names of the preachers a secret...Since when are the names of the preachers a secret?<br><br>What harm would identifying them do?<br><br>To disparage or defame them by name would be wrong, but simply posting their names would not, in my opinion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-46953141381631977252008-03-19T22:04:00.000-07:002008-03-19T22:04:00.000-07:00It would probably also depend on which locality yo...It would probably also depend on which locality you were referring to. ALso, for some of us that would not want to be identified too easily, naming names could date or place us... just a thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-84010777660580943442008-03-20T22:27:00.000-07:002008-03-20T22:27:00.000-07:00How would identifying the OALC preachers reveal yo...How would identifying the OALC preachers reveal your idenity, or date and place you? I am seriously considering posting their names for those who are courius. I wonder if Free has an objection. I cant think of a good reason not to.Sam Hillnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-15829040509700497332008-03-22T22:34:00.000-07:002008-03-22T22:34:00.000-07:00They are a private group. Yes, posting names of B...They are a private group. Yes, posting names of Baptist ministers would be different. Out of respect for privacy I would not post OALC preachers names on this site. Just my opinion. Happy Easter. -BunlessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-65813032065075143592008-03-23T08:32:00.000-07:002008-03-23T08:32:00.000-07:00I have no objection to listing OALC clergy here. I...I have no objection to listing OALC clergy here. I only ask that the information be accurate and spell-checked. <br><br>Years ago, I posted a photo of the elders with their names. Some readers objected to that.<br><br>My bias, however, is toward sunshine and transparency. Information-sharing can have a very wholesome impact on everyone when done with respect.<br><br>The cure for misunderstanding is more discussion, not less.Free2bmenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-70393249345054230012008-03-23T17:00:00.000-07:002008-03-23T17:00:00.000-07:00Well then let me be the first to share some inform...Well then let me be the first to share some information that I know. The community that I come from, which is Minneapolis MN, currently has 5 preachers. Their names are Amund Peterson, William (Bill) Homola, Jim Rivers, Brian Efraimson, and Clayton Tapani. Hope this helps.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-82937294417656526712008-03-24T04:56:00.000-07:002008-03-24T04:56:00.000-07:00A change of subject - on the issue of shunning, an...A change of subject - on the issue of shunning, and for those of you interested in a good book, “Plain Secrets, An Outsider among the Amish”, by Joe Mackall, is a nonfiction account of the Swartzentruber Amish, the most traditional of the various Amish groups. If a member of their sect chooses to leave, shunning is strongly encouraged and considered their last show of love. Some believe that if a child leaves the group, it means that the parents aren’t doing their job properly. Apparently they believe that shunning strengthens the community, reinforcing that the weakest link has been removed.<br><br>In the book is the story of one young Amish man who left the group. His outsider friend, referred to as the “English”, who helped him “believes that Amish life prevents parents from getting to really know their children – that they do not communicate with them, that the life prevents them from helping their kids solve their problems.” I found this interesting because, like some OALC parents, the church is of utmost importance – everything else falls somewhere below that on the list of priorities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-5150033234879334272008-03-24T08:57:00.000-07:002008-03-24T08:57:00.000-07:00RWB here...Nothing can stop anyone from posting th...RWB here...<br><br>Nothing can stop anyone from posting the identity of someone else in any form or format, positive or negative, except for the moderator of the site possibly. First, if you a going to post names of otherwise private people without their consent it would be courteous and kind to post your own name along with that. To do otherwise lacks integrity in my opinion. Second, if the moderator of the site allows this anonymous posting of names then that moderator (FREE) should openly disclose their name and take whatever comes of it. There are no apparent positives to posting someones name, especially without their knowledge or consent...NONE! Shame on anyone who does this and shame on the moderator for allowing this! I think I know the name of the moderator here and if I did a little digging I could verify it for sure. So, Free, let's see some of that sunshine and transparency on your part. Let us know about the wholesome impact it has for you. I can guarantee if I posted the names of the moderators/contributors to this site that I know of, the post would be deleted. I wouldn't do it, but just to prove my point I have mentioned it.<br><br>RWBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-12156847915423378042008-03-24T10:06:00.000-07:002008-03-24T10:06:00.000-07:00RWB, with all respect, you are comparing oranges t...RWB, with all respect, you are comparing oranges to apples. This blog is not a church.<br><br>The OALC is a tax-exempt nonprofit serving the public. (Interestingly, our country so values the good work that churches provide, they don't even have to prove they are doing good work. We take their word for it.) Isn't the job of a pastor to serve people (populus)? Isn't it by definition public? <br><br>Joseph Ratzinger would not object, I am fairly sure, to you knowing his name (he's the Pope). Religious leaders do not have the same expectation of privacy as their parishioners. In my town, clergy names are printed in the newspaper with phone numbers and email addresses. As if they wanted people to call them for spiritual guidance!<br><br>(By the way, the privacy of parishioners varies depending on the church. In 2004, the Republican Party asked its volunteers to submit their church directories to party headquarters. So if you are getting unwanted mail from the RNC, you might want to have a talk with your pastor!)<br><br>A blog is a different animal. It provides a place for discussion without identity (for better or worse). Personally, I have considered posting here under my own name, but having an email attached means I'd get a lot of junk mail. I have given curious readers enough personal detail to identify me, and I welcome one-on-one conversations anytime (extoot @ gmail.com). <br><br>RWB, I respect the fact that you and most posters here prefer pseudonyms -- either to keep peace in your family or to focus on issues, not personal details or family history. <br><br>I just don't see the harm in posting clergy names. No phone numbers. No email. No personal attacks. No making fun of non-Finnish surnames.<br><br>I'm open to persuasion, though. Sock it to me.Free2bmenoreply@blogger.com