tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post3122229453425615995..comments2023-10-18T02:03:42.145-07:00Comments on LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Amazing GraceUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-32276345307243651162005-09-19T06:07:00.000-07:002005-09-19T06:07:00.000-07:00I do not know who you are, whether male of female,...I do not know who you are, whether male of female, but I am one year older than you and a believer from a different congregation than Minneapolis. Your post left me cold, concerned and filled with a great sadness. I only ask you this...when you had all these doubts, how was your conscience? Many times, unbelief starts with music, and then movies, and then progresses into darkness, where we do not understand or accept God's word anymore. Remember we do not use the the forgiveness of sins as freedom to do sin, it is freedom from sin. The forgiveness of sins is unconditonal, but it is so important that we stay in the center of his flock, and not one foot in the world. Remember, the kingdom of God is like a flock of sheep with wolves on the outside. You would want to stay at the center, not living on the edge, where the wolves (the devil) can devour you. Perhaps, your conscience suffered, and so did your understanding. It is true, that when the holy spirit leaves us, we are in the dark. It is not up to you,to "re-join" the kingdom of God. If you truly desire to reach that heavenly home.. Pray, dear one, for a humble, child-like heart. Pray for understanding. Pray that you will be granted the grace of repentance. God is a merciful God. Remember our life is not in our hands. We must be watching and ready for our time. You said God's Peace, at the end of your letter. You will not find God's peace in the world. Dead churches can only give false security. But you probably won't recognize this. When the light of faith is snuffed out, we are in the dark. We can no longer see or understand things of God's kingdom. The greatest sin is unbelief, but even that sin can be forgiven.<br>"What reward for my pain will you give unto me, And how will you pay for my suffering? When I'm calling for you, you reject all my pleas And harden your heart as you tarry. You are just as a stone, still unyielding and cold, Your mind is so thankless, to sin it is sold, And filled with vain schemes and defenses. Now ye sinner O hasten and come unto me, Reject all your evil and sinning. As a gift I will bless you with righteousness pure And never remember your straying. But with gifts of the Spirit will beautify you, In all of your trials I will e'er strengthen you, And give you a crown once in glory."<br><br>I ask you, dear young one, have you not witnessed the joys and peace of being a believer? I, too, once had one foot in the world. And in this time, I was lost, angry, and confused. But I heeded the warnings God's word teaches us. And now I recognize the dangers of living with one foot in the world. We cannot live that way forever. Sooner or later, the spirit will leave us. We are all wretched sinners, but if we truly desire to believe, we will be given strength to resist the temptations that often beset us. And best of all, if we do fall into sin, we can believe it forgiven and forgotten, and battle other temptations with a clean slate. It is so, so important to keep a clean conscience. I do not know what else to say, only that I will pray for you, that God will lead you to his kingdom once more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-79401345055246881092005-09-19T06:24:00.000-07:002005-09-19T06:24:00.000-07:00Note: The LLC (Laestadian Lutheran Congregation) i...Note: The LLC (Laestadian Lutheran Congregation) is NOT the OALC or the Apostolic Lutheran Church. At one time these groups and others were one, but because of serious errors in the doctrine there were many heresies. The LLC is the original of Lars Levi Laestadius. Many branches (OALC, ALC, etc. have broken off in heresies over time)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-36821071685233211862005-09-19T07:35:00.000-07:002005-09-19T07:35:00.000-07:00Don't you know that only true Laestadians (not...Don't you know that only true Laestadians (not fake ones) will be saved? Be very afraid!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-75058484745956210282005-09-19T11:12:00.000-07:002005-09-19T11:12:00.000-07:00Its interesting how the LLC tries to get people ba...Its interesting how the LLC tries to get people back into their church by putting fear into them. Faith does not exist in a church. It exists in your heart. You dont have to walk into a church building of the LLC to believe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-31240989698020113512005-09-19T11:13:00.000-07:002005-09-19T11:13:00.000-07:00Shouldn't a church build a congregation with l...Shouldn't a church build a congregation with love instead of fear and hate towards everyone else?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-62412352219727880722005-09-19T12:07:00.000-07:002005-09-19T12:07:00.000-07:00Dear ex-LLC: Many blessings to you, dear one. I ...Dear ex-LLC: Many blessings to you, dear one. I wish I had your level of understanding - and courage - when I was your age. Ignore "Anonymous No. 1" above, would be my advice; those comments are all fear-driven, and God (in spite of certain statements especially in the Old Testament) is not a God of fear. <br>May you be steadfast in your love of God (forget "faith", as that much-abused word is used by "the faithful") and everything else will be added unto you. Looks like that prayer is already being answered!<br>"Grandmother" MTHMany Trails Homenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-73572811155865936062005-09-19T12:16:00.000-07:002005-09-19T12:16:00.000-07:00Thank you, Minneapolis LLCer, for putting into pri...Thank you, Minneapolis LLCer, for putting into print a typical response to those who leaving a coercive church. For any readers who are unfamiliar with "Christian" shaming and fear tactics, your words are educational. For those of us who are all too familiar with that reasoning, your post reminds us of former bondage and current grace.<br><br>I've no wish to shame you. Your motives can be pure and your reasoning flawed. Being young, perhaps you do not understand the presumptions you are making . . . about what is the world, what is the church, what is love. I hope that is the case and that you will prayerfully consider what is Christian about your concepts. May you make room for and welcome a larger concept of grace when it is offered to you.Julie Whitehornhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16921829370327742832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-34033372961954894132005-09-19T13:17:00.000-07:002005-09-19T13:17:00.000-07:00"Don't you know that only true Laestadian..."Don't you know that only true Laestadians (not fake ones) will be saved? Be very afraid!"<br><br>My initial reaction upon reading the above was that someone was joking. I'm still not sure someone isn't just trolling. But if that is not just a troll post, I would like to refer you to the words of Jesus from Mark 9:<br><br> 38And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.<br><br> 39But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.<br><br> 40For he that is not against us is on our part. <br><br>The poster above has the spirit of John, not of Jesus. I am so sorrowful to see how unhealthy the LLC appears to be, based on the response to exLLC. <br><br>To anyone from a church based on fear, I would like to tell you that the spirit of God is not a spirit of fear, but of one of love, peace, understanding, and joy in the Holy Ghost. You CAN know the truth that sets you free from these unhealthy fear-based forms of religion.<br><br>God, please save us from those who claim to be your followers!Concernednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-69027958041238800132005-09-19T13:59:00.000-07:002005-09-19T13:59:00.000-07:00Remember: hate is learned. The LCC members are pas...Remember: hate is learned. The LCC members are passing this doctrine down to their children. My heart goes out to the children in that church. You will often hear apostolics say that they "believe like children" and have a "childlike faith" (simple). If this is what is being preached there, it's not being followed. As I said before, hate is not a natural part of a young child.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-66070565469628331812005-09-19T14:28:00.000-07:002005-09-19T14:28:00.000-07:00Whew! what a letter. (referring to the 1st commen...Whew! what a letter. (referring to the 1st comment) I just want to encourage you exllc. The spirit will lead and guide you just as surely as anyone else.You will know if the church you choose to attend has a real faith. <br><br>The spirit of fear found in that 1st letter is all too common. We aren't supposed to hide our light under a bushel, or put a protective bubble around us. We need to have faith that God will be with us always. <br><br>Does the author of the second post realize that there are people in the "heresy branches" who would write an identical letter??!! (as the first one)<br><br>God Bless you all....another anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-8994790888439604142005-09-19T17:49:00.000-07:002005-09-19T17:49:00.000-07:00I at first assumed the first letter was written by...I at first assumed the first letter was written by a member of the OALC, since it's so identical to what I heard growing up in the OALC. Do these three branches, OALC, ALC, and LLC realize they call each other heresy branches and at the same time preach identical messages and use identical language? As far as I can tell, they all believe basically the same thing. They just feel you have to be in the correct BUILDING to be saved. I wish they would reach out to each other in Christian love. Wouldn't<br> that be something--representatives from each branch could have a meeting, asking the Lord to guide them, and then find common ground so they could quit using up spiritual energy to blast each other. Maybe it's just more fun to do it the way they do it. Reminds me of my cat--every time he goes outside he has to carefully scope out the area, stay in a strike position until all is clear, and then very carefully proceed. There isn't any danger in our yard, but how much more fun he manages to make his exits from the house. Careful Cat, a sorrwless one might get you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-89097401217485683732005-09-19T18:34:00.000-07:002005-09-19T18:34:00.000-07:00I don't think it's fair to include the ALC...I don't think it's fair to include the ALC in that list of three if by ALC you mean the Federation. Are you familiar with the ALC? I am, and I haven't experienced the same things in the ALC.Concernednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-77320104888039113682005-09-19T20:17:00.000-07:002005-09-19T20:17:00.000-07:00Your right, I wouldn't include the ALC. Most o...Your right, I wouldn't include the ALC. Most of them do not believe and preach that they are the only ones. The pollarites also do not seem to be as exclusive. But, I would include the First Apostolic (FALC). They are extremely exclusive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-10549848594800224322005-09-20T10:07:00.000-07:002005-09-20T10:07:00.000-07:00I've heard that the FALC is getting to be almo...I've heard that the FALC is getting to be almost as bad as the OALC. Is this true? If so, those people may need help on this site, as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-78875948132582378052005-09-20T10:25:00.000-07:002005-09-20T10:25:00.000-07:00Good--I didn't know that the ALC wasn't pr...Good--I didn't know that the ALC wasn't preaching the the same line as the others and certainly would not have included them in my cat analogy had I been aware. I'm sorry. Could someone clear this up--who besides the OALC preach exclusivity (a fancy word for being the only RIGHT church). Is it just the First Apostolic (FALC) and the Laestadian Lutheran Congregation (LLC)? I sure don't want to say anything that's not true. God Bless you all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-26780427753407916732005-09-20T10:29:00.000-07:002005-09-20T10:29:00.000-07:00I have family in the FALC and the LLC. I am an ex-...I have family in the FALC and the LLC. I am an ex-FALC member. Yes, they are both very exclusive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-8379753596666351272005-09-20T14:12:00.000-07:002005-09-20T14:12:00.000-07:00Hi All ~ I currently attend an ALC church. I beli...Hi All ~ I currently attend an ALC church. I believe exclusivity is wrong, as do many of our members and Pastors/Preachers. But you will find those in our churches who believe we are the only Christians. If they don't come right out an say it, they certainly give that impression in their conversation, which is just as misguiding in my book. Comments like "there are no Christians living in that area". Perhaps they don't mean it the way it sounds, but it stems from yrs ago when that exclusivity belief was much stronger. And if the other person who commented earlier defending the ALC disagrees with me, remember how varied our churches can be. We have a couple in our Federation which are quite close to the OALC. Also I have first hand experience with it, I was raised with the " we are the only ones" belief. <br>Again, I don't believe that as a whole, the ALC teaches that, but it was there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-41797773184317211452005-09-20T15:09:00.000-07:002005-09-20T15:09:00.000-07:00In reply to the comment above mine: the poster is ...In reply to the comment above mine: the poster is correct in that there are many different stripes of ALCer and you will hear varying degrees of exclusivism. But in the ALC, I personally never heard the type of explicit exclusivism practiced by the FALC and OALC. The exclusivism I heard was more of an implicit one in using the word "Christian" to mean ALCer.<br><br>Even in the Chassell church, which would be one of the most conservative churches associated with the ALC, no one there that I know of would explicitly say that only ALCers or Chassellites will be saved. On the contrary, I heard explicit denunciations of that sort of idea from long-time Chassellites.<br><br>To sum up: there is great variety within the ALC, and a form of implicit exclusivism (by lack of thought and lack of care with words) is present in some ALCers.Concernednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-91291493753473245532005-09-20T21:04:00.000-07:002005-09-20T21:04:00.000-07:00I think this discussion is important, in that many...I think this discussion is important, in that many people (like myself) have not been aware of the differences. Now I understand that the LLC, OALC and the FALC all teach exclusivism. Some ALC may believe that line, but it's not one of the central issues. So, we are all on the same page here. Now, I would sure like to hear from members of the three churches about what the real differences are. The actual facts of what one church believes that is different from what the other two believe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-90544402077229870552005-09-21T12:58:00.000-07:002005-09-21T12:58:00.000-07:00I would like to address the word faith. I still ha...I would like to address the word faith. I still have faith. I have faith that Jesus died on the cross to forgive my sins. I have faith that the Lord will look after me and guide me. I have faith that the heavenly father loves me, and I will rejoin him in heaven one day. <br><br>I know this to be true because it is the words of Jesus Christ. Not because an LLC preacher told me, not because the preacher in my new church told me, not even because of what Lars Levi Laustius said, but because it is the teachings of Jesus Christ. I know this because I opened up my bible and started reading his teachings for myself. When I read the bible, I don’t jump around from verse to verse trying to prove a point, I read it strait-through.<br><br>If you asked me how I know I am saved, I would open up my bible to John 3.16 and say, See Jesus Christ said I will have eternal Life right here, Then I would turn to another verse and say, look, Jesus said it again right here. I could show you scripture after scripture that proves that I am saved. <br><br>Now I ask the LLC members, how do you know you are saved. Is it because a preacher told you that you are saved? Did a family member tell you where saved? Is it because someone recited a few verses from John 20, and then told you that your sins where forgiven? Did a person tell you that your sins are forgiven, and you believed that person? Or did you start reading the bible for yourself and heed the word of Jesus Christ? <br><br>If the answer is not my last sentence, then I encourage you to examine yourself and think about how you know you are saved. If you want to grow in your faith, read the bible for yourself, strait through like you would any other book. Read the book of John, Acts, Romans. Read the whole books. You will become stronger in your faith, and you will know you are saved without a doubt.exLLChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12707203107116003259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-69952273041259635722005-09-21T17:45:00.000-07:002005-09-21T17:45:00.000-07:00"Now, I would sure like to hear from members ..."Now, I would sure like to hear from members of the three churches about what the real differences are."<br>The LLC and FALC are very similar in way of preaching. However, the FALC has NO missionary work out of the church. The LLC has some, as far as I know. The kids can play sports in school(LLC kids cannot). Kids in each church are told to date within the church. During the LLC/FALC split in 1973, it was said that the FALC said TV was ok, LLC said no, TV is sin. However, the LLC is starting to allow TV and a few of the kids can play sports in school. Its very sad how things like this can divide a church. Reminds us where they have their focus...law and tradition!Former FALC membernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-6751058117925764952005-09-23T10:37:00.000-07:002005-09-23T10:37:00.000-07:00Thanks former--the TV and sports issues are their ...Thanks former--the TV and sports issues are their rules, but what is the belief behind it that determines what their rules are? That, I think, is the hard question. What does an OALC member think about Jesus, the Bible, salvation, etc., that is different then the FALC and the LLC member believes. It has to be an answer that goes beyond "We are the right ones". WHY are you right? Do you interpret what Laestadius preached in different ways then the other two churches? TAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-37381950918450742032005-09-23T12:41:00.000-07:002005-09-23T12:41:00.000-07:00If you asked a LLCer, they would tell you that the...If you asked a LLCer, they would tell you that the bible said there is only one true church, and the LLC is that church. In order to receive the forgiveness of sins, then you need to find someone with the Holy Ghost, (only LLC members have the holy ghost) and have them tell you “believe all your sins forgiven in Jesus name in precious blood”. The concept is that when a true believer tells you that, the Holy Ghost inside of that person forgives your sin. Is this the same way it works in other Laustadien churches? <br><br>If the other laustadien churches do the same thing, According the LLC, it is not a valid way to receive the forgiveness of sins because nobody in the other churches has the Holy Spirit. It would just be words they are saying. After all, the Bible said there is one church, therefore, it must be the LLC.<br><br>Was TV really one of the issues in the 1973 split? Does the FALC really watch TV? In the LLC it is still said that watching TV is a sin, but many people have them and watch them, even the preachers, but mainly educational videos and some even have moved on to Disney movies. Nobody talks about it though. <br><br>FALC kids can play sports in school, huh? That's news to me. I've never heard of an LLC kid playing sports in school. <br><br>An LLC preacher told me that one of the reasons of the split was because the FALC was trying to mix country music in with their worship music. Does the FALC say that county music is OK? What about other genres of music? Is it incorporated with their hymns?<br><br>You mentioned that the LLC does missionary work. They have recently established new congregations in Equidor and Togo. I have mixed feelings about these missionary trips. It is good that these Africans are coming to know Christ, but it Isn't good that they are also accepting an abusive church. <br><br>Community service is also becoming more popular. In this months “The Voice of Zion”, the churches newspaper, it explains how the LLC in Michigan is taken part in the Adopt-a -highway program and the LLC is in charge of keeping 2 miles of highway clean. I also heard that the LLC also took up a Hurricane Katrina fund and are donating to the victims. <br><br>Besides rules and tradition, the only doctrinal difference between most Laustadien churches is. <br><br>Church1- “The bible said there is only one church, that church is us.”<br><br>Church2- “Nope, that one church is us, not you guys, your heretics, and you separated from us.” <br><br>Church1- “No we didn't! You guys separated from us. You guys are the heretics. Look at your laws, there different from us, and that's sin. Sinners! Only True Laustadiens are saved. Be afraid, very afraid.” <br><br><br><br>They seem like the exact same church to me, they most both be the one true church mentioned in the Bible.exLLChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12707203107116003259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-58069193917149729292005-09-23T23:34:00.000-07:002005-09-23T23:34:00.000-07:00The OALC says,"All sins forgiven in Jesus nam...The OALC says,"All sins forgiven in Jesus name and precious blood of reconciliation". Remember there are 3 seperate churches we are talking about--the OALC, the FALC, and the LLC. How would Laestadius take the news that there are 3 churches that proclaim to be the only right church? Sure wanting some members of the 3 to tell us what the big differences are in what they believe. Not the church rules about sports etc., but what is different about what the Bible and Laestadius tells each group.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-76533036443844616572005-09-25T10:01:00.000-07:002005-09-25T10:01:00.000-07:00Well, so far no one is answering the question. Do...Well, so far no one is answering the question. Doesn't anyone know the answer?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com