tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post1590520027075038952..comments2023-10-18T02:03:42.145-07:00Comments on LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Good Night, Sweet PrinceUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-39803929240187127782008-05-27T08:40:00.000-07:002008-05-27T08:40:00.000-07:00Maybe he did repent at the end and he didn't j...Maybe he did repent at the end and he didn't just do it to save his family's feelings. Knowing how things work, likely they offered him communion and he accepted it and asked for forgiveness of his sins. Since he is human I'm sure he had some, but that does not mean that he actually specifically called out his homosexuality/relationship with his partner.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-72251996147880889212008-05-27T13:08:00.000-07:002008-05-27T13:08:00.000-07:00SERIOUSLY????!!!!Where is your human compassion? T...<b>SERIOUSLY????!!!!</b><br>Where is your human compassion? That is the most judgmental criticism. Can we just mourn the loss of one cyber-friend without having anyone hopping on their high-horse and having to decide their destiny???? Sheesh.<br>My condolences to Markus and his family, including his partner.helenanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-26587860658640994602008-05-27T14:04:00.000-07:002008-05-27T14:04:00.000-07:00Given some offline conversations about this, I thi...Given some offline conversations about this, I think the first commenter is a former Laestadian rejecting any assumption that Markus' deathbed repentance was a repudiation of his sexuality or his love for Mark.<br><br>Whatever it was, anyone who seriously thinks eternal life is granted or refused based on what one says (and to whom) needs a lobotomy. And a bigger God.<br><br>I try to be tolerant, but this is where I get really impatient with Laestadianism. Crock!Free2bmenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-4124609177740081252008-05-27T14:08:00.000-07:002008-05-27T14:08:00.000-07:00Okay, sorry for jumping to conclusions... It just ...Okay, sorry for jumping to conclusions... It just seemed so out of left field (and so... Laestadian) to be bringing up repentance and, of course, sexuality the instant someone dies. <br>I apologize to the blogger if that was not the intent.helenanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-84047948391149208422008-05-28T09:31:00.000-07:002008-05-28T09:31:00.000-07:00I have to admit, when I read his caringbridge site...I have to admit, when I read his caringbridge site, the first thing that popped into my head was, "I wonder why he 'repented?'" And I wonder how Mark will be treated in the days to come. <br><br>My brother, an ex-Laestadian (as am I), died unexpectedly last year. My family, still in the church, suffered terribly, believing that he went to hell. I think that whatever Markus' reasons, he had compassion abundant enough to give some comfort to his family.<br><br>Condolences to Mark and Markus' family. Markus was a gift to us all. <br><br>KTAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-32856593754083737112008-05-29T11:36:00.000-07:002008-05-29T11:36:00.000-07:00Mark writes on the CaringBridge site that there ar...Mark writes on the <a href="http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/markuswuollet" rel="nofollow">CaringBridge site</a> that there are two memorial services tomorrow for Markus, one organized by him (at an ELCA Lutheran church) and one organized by the family (at a Laestadian Lutheran church). Mark and the family will attend both services, but they wanted to honor their own values and traditions.<br><br>This seems like a respectful and honorable compromise and I hope it sets a precedent.<br><br>Soon enough each of us will have our Laestadian and non-Laestadian loved ones gathered in mourning. May the first humbly refrain from telling the latter they are in need of grace.Free2bmenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-74299178502846665032008-05-29T14:41:00.000-07:002008-05-29T14:41:00.000-07:00It is interesting to note that there is no notice ...It is interesting to note that there is no notice in the Minneapolis paper on his death. Is this an LLC practice not to have funeral notice? I did not grow up in the LLC but have seen notices regularly from the ALC, IALC and even the OALC. Or do you think the family/LLC did not want to "make waves" about Markus and Mark among outsiders who might happen to come to the LLC service? I wish I could go to his funeral even though I have never met him, I feel like somehow I knew him and I've been thinking about him a lot this week. <br><br>StrangerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-1504088035219295832008-05-29T20:26:00.000-07:002008-05-29T20:26:00.000-07:00God's blessings to Markus's family and fri...God's blessings to Markus's family and friends. I hope he had a peacefull passing.4eyesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-59872592019291787122008-05-30T23:36:00.000-07:002008-05-30T23:36:00.000-07:00Actually, if you look online here, there is an obi...Actually, if you look online <a href="http://www.legacy.com/StarTribune/Obituaries.asp?Page=LifeStory&PersonId=110653817" rel="nofollow">here</a>, there is an obituary. I'm not sure who put it in the paper...it doesn't say. I don't know what day it would have been in print.daisyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03168831819807523569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-36309368107579991752008-05-31T22:24:00.000-07:002008-05-31T22:24:00.000-07:00Thanks for posting this Daisy...I was looking and ...Thanks for posting this Daisy...I was looking and looking and somehow missed it. It was a well-written and respectful obituary and included Mark. It seems the Wuollet family is a class act.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-62435338128162691462008-06-02T11:19:00.000-07:002008-06-02T11:19:00.000-07:00As a fact here Markus knew he was not ready to mee...As a fact here Markus knew he was not ready to meet His maker and told his parents this and wanted to repent from his lifestyle and other sins of the journey. So you can speculate all you want but this is the truth and he said so himself in his final moments. God is good and hears the call from penitent souls. We rejoice for Markus that he is resting the eternal rest of the righteous. May God keep me and call all to His grace throne while there is yet day, "For night cometh when no man shall work."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-39664479000271681872008-06-02T11:46:00.000-07:002008-06-02T11:46:00.000-07:00You mean his lifestyle as a Laestadian? The part t...You mean his lifestyle as a Laestadian? The part that judges whether other people are saved? <br><br>That's a relief.<br><br>Since you are not Markus you don't know what he knew or thought. Have some humility.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-58601945301950327852008-06-02T14:17:00.000-07:002008-06-02T14:17:00.000-07:00Markus was a wonderful, loving person, and it was ...Markus was a wonderful, loving person, and it was a privilege to be able to know him. Let us remember the Wuollet's, Mark, and all his family and friends at this time. <br><br>Now that he is gone, can we just remember that he was loved by a great many family and friends and let him rest in peace? It is not our place to judge his state of mind in his final days, and publicly speculating seems to be in poor taste. Even though there are legitimate questions facing our society regarding how society treats the dying and who is allowed to be considered family, this isn't the time and place for it.<br><br>Goodbye, Markus.Ilmarinennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-45145709449496079812008-06-02T17:06:00.000-07:002008-06-02T17:06:00.000-07:00Well said, Ilmarinen.Well said, Ilmarinen.Free2bmenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-14380306760773462892008-06-02T20:15:00.000-07:002008-06-02T20:15:00.000-07:00Markus truly was a wonderful person and loved by m...Markus truly was a wonderful person and loved by many. The truth is that in his final moments he knew and said that living faith was the most important thing. He died in living faith and has attained the rest of all who know their own sinfulness and seek forgiveness and peace. Laestadians are sinners like everyone else the only difference is we are pardoned sinners and live by grace and forgiveness in Jesus name and blood. It is only by the grace of God that anyone attains heavens glory.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-40906354052454426492008-06-02T21:22:00.000-07:002008-06-02T21:22:00.000-07:00Yes, by the grace of God. I agree. Not the Laest...Yes, by the grace of God. I agree. <br><br>Not the Laestadian church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-4657302865231809972008-06-03T11:10:00.000-07:002008-06-03T11:10:00.000-07:00I have had a few friends in the oalc in high schoo...I have had a few friends in the oalc in high school and always wondered why they wouldn't come to my church youth group functions, so I've always wanted to learn more about their somewhat secretive church. Why do they believe they have a living faith and other churches don't?<br>my condolences to Markus' family and friends here,<br>judge not lest we be judged.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-11124999713814509832008-06-03T12:58:00.000-07:002008-06-03T12:58:00.000-07:00"Within Laestadianism it is commonly believed..."Within Laestadianism it is commonly believed that the movement is a contemporary descendant of an unbroken line of living Christianity via the Moravian Church, Luther,the Bohemian Brethren, the Lollards and the Waldensians all the way back to the primitive Church. Martin Luther, Jan Hus, John Wycliffe and Peter Waldo are seen as spiritual ancestors of Laestadianism."<br><br>in another word, they are wack jobs..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-56465719859541519592008-06-03T18:45:00.000-07:002008-06-03T18:45:00.000-07:00LLLreader sez: You aren't talking about the O...LLLreader sez: You aren't talking about the OALC are you? Within the OALC there was never any attempt to trace the development of the church. The only one ever mentioned was LLL himself. The true church is believed to have started with him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-33403581123872127832008-06-03T21:21:00.000-07:002008-06-03T21:21:00.000-07:00Not so, LLLreader. I also heard the tracing of th...Not so, LLLreader. I also heard the tracing of the church lineage back to Christ but not in the detail mentioned above. I forget who they considered carrying the torch before Luther - it was certainly not the Catholic church! Perhaps others can provide some enlightenment. MTHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-74424409286190629942008-06-03T21:43:00.000-07:002008-06-03T21:43:00.000-07:00I remember hearing the OALC preachers talking abou...I remember hearing the OALC preachers talking about Jan Hus every once in awhile. I don't recall mention of the others though (except of course Luther and Laestadius.cvowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07542845394936520037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-39877891334864005662008-06-03T22:04:00.000-07:002008-06-03T22:04:00.000-07:00The final "precious" deathbed testimony ...The final "precious" deathbed testimony is something about which the OALCer's talk a lot. I don't see anything particularly "wrong" with that, unless it is done under duress. Surely there is nothing wrong if a person asks for forgiveness in whatever way they believe as they near death. However, as an example of the duress aspect, I remember when my aunt was dying in the hospital -- and this was a lady who I suspect was pretty much an atheist but it was her business so we didn't ask -- one of my older OALC cousins came to the hospital and basically hounded and harangued her to repent. She finally said she did, but I suspect it was just to get the guy out of there so she could die in peace. Of course, he made a huge deal out of how she had "repented" on her deathbed.<br><br>Perhaps this is another one of Lutheran hearkenings to their Catholic roots, as it is similar in ways to the Sacramentum exeuntium (extreme unction), which is a final anointing of the sick, or the viaticum, the final Eucharistic communion, of which either or both can be administered when death is imminent.cvowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07542845394936520037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-42976914171528069662008-06-03T23:49:00.000-07:002008-06-03T23:49:00.000-07:00The OALC church lineage is emphasised especially i...The OALC church lineage is emphasised especially in Norway, but I've heard it mentioned elsewhere, too. However, in Finland they tend to talk more about Luther, how he received the "living Christianity" through a Catholic monk at confession, while the Norwegians tend to put more emphasis on the Moravian church of Jan Hus and the Herrnhutians who are sort of descendants of the Moravian church. Most people only know there always were "living Christians" in one way or other but are unable to specify who, when and where. And even if they are able to give details, it's only speculations, and if you take a look at what the different groups they claim to be their fellow-believers really believed, it is easy to see that they are not the same at all. Besides, there's a huge gap of about 1000 years from the apostles to the Waldensians. It's also a bit contradictory that at the same time as they speak about a lineage all the way back to the apostles they tend to speak about how the "living Christianity" was "born again" in the Swedish Lapland when the light started shining through Laestadius.<br><br>---<br><br>As for the death bed repentances, I think the strong desire to believe that their loved ones went to heaven sometimes leads them to misinterpret the intentions of the person who's dying. If someone's just simply asking for forgiveness for any wrongdoings he might have done against their friends and family it may be interpreted as repenting from one's "worldly life", i.e. becoming a Laestadian. Nothing wrong about the desire to believe that one's loved ones go to heaven and nothing wrong about asking for forgiveness, but it's not good if something that is not intended to be a Laestadian kind of "repentance" is claimed to be such.<br><br>HibernatusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-65982818667905853562008-06-04T04:09:00.000-07:002008-06-04T04:09:00.000-07:00As for the OALC lineage, I always heard them refer...As for the OALC lineage, I always heard them referring to various "periods of visitation", of which Luther's time was one, and Laestadianism followed that. Apparently the centuries between were periods of nothingness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-46867954779295675622008-06-04T05:11:00.000-07:002008-06-04T05:11:00.000-07:00At least some of them believe that the "perio...At least some of them believe that the "periods of visitation" are periods when the "living Christianity" is in a congregational form but during the periods in between the "living Christianity" survives in individual believers. I never managed to get a satisfactory explanation to where the individual "living Christians" disappear when the "living Christianity" takes congregational form and the emerging congregation of "living Christians" becomes the exclusive Kingdom of God on earth outside of which there's no salvation. For example, if the "living Christianity" took congregational form when the Lutheran "period of visisation" started in the 15th century where did the individual "living Christians" in the Catholic church disappear? Wouldn't it be logical to assume that there continued to be "living Christians" in the Catholic church also after Luther if there were "living Christians" in the Catholic church before Luther? The same question of course applies also to Laestadius and the Lutheran church. <br><br>So, if a Laestadian believes in a lineage, i.e. that there have always been "living Christians" either as a congregation during the "periods of visitation" or as individual persons between the "periods of visitation", there's a serious contradiction with their belief that the Laestadian community is the only true church. Whereas if they believe there have been periods of nothingness, i.e. without a single "living Christian" on earth, there is a serious contradiction with their belief in the necessity of hearing the forgiveness of sins from a "living Christian". Where would such a person come from if there was a period of no "living Christians"?<br><br>HibernatusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com