tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post6946682087097414178..comments2023-10-18T02:03:42.145-07:00Comments on LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Greta's StoryUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-82957401507463906862018-11-06T12:45:59.727-08:002018-11-06T12:45:59.727-08:00I have never said I have left. At 23 I started to ...I have never said I have left. At 23 I started to really question and at 25 I want to leave and say I'm done with the church. I rarely attend church. I dont believe how most of the members believe morally. I get sick feelings of shame, suffering and overall disgust with myself. I feel like I come along very far and then I spend time with church members and regress. I am extremly traumatized from my childhood and often feel helpless. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-31612291791502667042017-03-15T21:16:01.239-07:002017-03-15T21:16:01.239-07:00as someone who grew up in the calumet FALC church ...as someone who grew up in the calumet FALC church from childhood until i left at about 17 and moved away to college last year at 18, i can say this was definitely the case for me. the stories of hell and punishment terrified me and i would never have dared think of anything else religiously. but yet i grew enough to "leave" through a combination of friends/family questioning for themselves and the ideals of the church bothering my intellectual side. another factor is the community, many don't dare leave openly because of the social fallout that would ensue, but continue to attend, maybe just very sporadically. for me, i consider myself no longer a member of the religion but still have never openly "left" if that makes sense. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-20754712162490564822015-09-21T10:51:13.162-07:002015-09-21T10:51:13.162-07:00I was part of the IALC. It appears that at some p...I was part of the IALC. It appears that at some point in the past, the IALC had female Sunday school teachers but at some point that changed. At one point in an annual meeting they were having a hard time finding volunteers and a woman, a skilled teacher, volunteered but she was told that women shouldn't speak in church. Looking into the history I found that in one location the local IALC congregation teamed with a couple other small country churches and taught Sunday school together for the area children. At some point the IALC became way more conservative and reactionary in this regard (and more flexible regarding birth control, and other issues?) and I would like to know more about that. --PunahilkkaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-22373449998815214302015-09-21T08:47:51.367-07:002015-09-21T08:47:51.367-07:00A few years ago there was a women bible class lead...A few years ago there was a women bible class leader in CO LLC that was taken off the roster. Reason given by the LLC board that women shouldn't be put in that position. She is a very intelligent women who studied theology and had interesting lessons. She hardly batted an eye and said it was "God's will" blissfully unblindednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-89171530658737462022014-06-23T17:58:21.980-07:002014-06-23T17:58:21.980-07:00Flora says: Hi all--this story is interesting and ...Flora says: Hi all--this story is interesting and I'd love to read others (and maybe write mine) but, I just wanted to pipe up here about this Mormon woman, Kate Kelly, who just got excommunicated from the church for her involvement in the organization Ordain Women. If you go to the Ordain Women site, there are so many letters and testimonials from Mormon women and men who support her and the idea that it should be okay to ask questions about female ordination. It's sort of sad to see so many who want to stay in their church who feel there is no place for them because of the inequality of women. It could easily be Laestadian women writing these posts. Two things I think: #1 how interesting that so many faithful women from strict church backgrounds have so much in common in their ways of thinking regardless of denomination and #2 how sad that even if ordained, they would just be heads of organizations that are fundamentally patriarchal and not egalitarian, so almost a pointless fight. I don't know--just so interested and saddened to read about this case. Other thoughts?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-72523684773748338402014-06-23T07:59:08.416-07:002014-06-23T07:59:08.416-07:00Anonymous.....if you had a modicum of an education...Anonymous.....if you had a modicum of an education you would know which psychology study I was referring to which had nothing to do with comparing children to dogs but instead had everything to do with explaining the 'battered woman syndrome' and other abusive situations. I think you just sort of threw your snippy, pharisaical remark in there as an 'anonymous' put down which really does not surprise me. I recall a number of people at raucous church meetings, whom much like yourself regressed into false accusations, slander and name calling to make their 'doctrinal point'. So indeed as 'mouseinacorner' says, "If the shoe fits......." Old APAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-84929442782981831282014-06-22T12:06:24.787-07:002014-06-22T12:06:24.787-07:00If the shoe fits...
mouseinacornerIf the shoe fits...<br /><br />mouseinacornerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-14274796608072462362014-06-19T13:28:22.093-07:002014-06-19T13:28:22.093-07:00Comparing Leastadian children to abused dogs. Real...Comparing Leastadian children to abused dogs. Real classy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-51638709993238936902014-06-16T09:31:06.296-07:002014-06-16T09:31:06.296-07:00The actual term to describe Laestadian behavior is...The actual term to describe Laestadian behavior is 'learned helplessness.' Psychological tests using dogs showed that canines who were tied up and shocked would continue to get shocked and not attempt to escape later on even when they were no longer bound....hence the term, "learned helplessness." I suspect that at an early age Laestadian children are psychologically bound and shocked with terrifying stories about God, sin, the devil, punishment and hell. This creates a spiritual version of 'learned helplessness' which continues with them the rest of their lives so that they never escape. Old APAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-67114615371982385052014-06-15T10:33:46.658-07:002014-06-15T10:33:46.658-07:00Here is a link to that piece. Thanks, SISU!Here is a <a href="http://www.npr.org/2014/06/15/322004182/how-one-woman-left-an-arranged-marriage-and-what-it-cost-her" rel="nofollow"> link </a> to that piece. Thanks, SISU!Freehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14779418481668841114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-28395395872785187442014-06-15T09:54:04.864-07:002014-06-15T09:54:04.864-07:00I listened to a piece on NPR this morning. An Ort...I listened to a piece on NPR this morning. An Orthodox Jewish woman was interviewed about her arranged marriage and subsequent divorce. I could have substituted the OALC for all but the arranged part, and it would ring true for many girls/women. <br /><br />It emphasized to me that these behaviors are cultural and not necessarily religious, but the fallout is no less painful.<br /><br />SISUAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-9107281334796627462014-06-11T13:24:50.408-07:002014-06-11T13:24:50.408-07:00I'm sure that the actual percentage varies fro...I'm sure that the actual percentage varies from denomination to denomination, but if I had to guess I'd say a good 20-30 percent of people growing up in the FALC end up leaving, at least. Heck, I went back and looked at my confirmation class the other day and only three of 15 still attend church. And that's including myself as an atheist who goes maybe four times a year.FreeThinkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-80878659689624983932014-06-10T14:03:02.444-07:002014-06-10T14:03:02.444-07:00I know that there is 0% chance for most to come ou...I know that there is 0% chance for most to come out of it. It has been passed on since 1805 or whatever. I am not part of it, but I suffered from it because of being around it for over a decade. I had a small child walk up to my desk and ask me, or I think he observed that "You listen to the evil music". This kid was no more than 4 years old. I felt humiliated and that this kid had shown this groups true colors. They are like the Pharisees- they revel in watching others complete their own sin bucket list. They think they are taking one for the team by foregoing music or sex. They give each other a blue ribbon for this and teach their kids to hate. It's so maddening. They won't budge an inch. They are right. I am wrong. They are on a high moral plain yet they claim they are "weak and weary doubting travelers". WHAT A BUNCH OF BS!!! THEY OOZE WITH PRIDE AND SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS JUST LIKE THE PHARISEES!!! <br /><br />Like every other cult, they say "DO" when Jesus says "DONE"! <br /><br />They have to earn salvation yet they insist it is grace. It's trust Jesus and you are forgiven butt....<br /><br />DudeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-35346181234008199572014-06-08T15:57:42.987-07:002014-06-08T15:57:42.987-07:00I think we need to understand the danger the peopl...I think we need to understand the danger the people in the pews will eventually find themselves. Those people that are being taught false doctrine and traditions of men. TheBible says traditions of men being taught will void the word of God and you end up with no value no power. Gal 5:4 also tells us if try and add anything to simp ly trusting in Jesus and his finished work on the cross we will have fallen from grace and Christ profits you nothing...That doesnt sound good. How can the Ladstadian Churches please God and make it to heaven if we can't add anything to faith alone in Christ alone?....The preacher puts the poor people in the pews in range.....MattAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-68147089968151893192014-06-05T15:12:36.865-07:002014-06-05T15:12:36.865-07:00Old AP, as usual, you are right on target. Excelle...Old AP, as usual, you are right on target. Excellent observations, which fully apply to LLC/SRK Laestadianism as well. I was the child of a Catholic convert and a repented rebel, one of just a few siblings with no extended family in the church. It was a pretty lonely road for me and my kids, even at the best of times.Ed Suominenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14699682370502146769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-86632385930490299342014-06-05T10:25:10.447-07:002014-06-05T10:25:10.447-07:00Matt, I have pondered that same question.....how c...Matt, I have pondered that same question.....how could people who are so intelligent otherwise, fall for such a line of malarkey? Having grown up with the stuff, my guess is that the horse blinders are put on the children at such a young age that they are never alllowed to see what is to the left or right. The level of indoctrination within so many Laestadian homes is so intense that what would be considered a rational thought process and intuitive logic are tamped down in favor of blind acceptance of the party line. A hellish fear level is used to cement Laestadian foundational beliefs into children and young people. At least that is how it was in our home and from what I could see that is how most homes seemed to operate. Of course mainstream Laestadian church members would adamantly deny that they do this to their children as they themselves have blinders on. So many Laestadian beliefs and outlooks are based on superstition and voodoo type beliefs which have nothing to do with the Bible. But try telling them that and watch the reaction. Old APAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-72245486542527667582014-06-05T04:49:07.557-07:002014-06-05T04:49:07.557-07:00Why do Finns who are intelligent in most areas of ...Why do Finns who are intelligent in most areas of life, fall for the ,poisonous lie, that their Laestadian church faction group is the only ones that are heaven bound. The reason is we refuse to read the Bible in depth for ourselves. We would quickly find out that the church is. Teaching a lot of bull. That was my lazy reason. The first 3 chapters of Eph. Will help you...MattAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-74902710489500659422014-06-04T09:56:19.785-07:002014-06-04T09:56:19.785-07:00I would say that 'Margaret's Story' is...I would say that 'Margaret's Story' is a common story amongst those who have left Laestadianism. All too often those who would not 'fit in' later on in life were those who did not fit in when they were younger either. Those who are on the outside of the 'clique' usually will go to great efforts to fit in with the norms of the insiders as they rapidly learn what shunning feels like in their early teens. I recall parents warning their children not to associate with children who were from more 'liberal' families as they felt their own children might be led astray. However, there were those who never did fit in socially and I saw some of them turn to alcoholism, depression and aloofness as ways of coping. Interestingly enough I noticed that those who were the most intelligent were most often those who ended up being left out of the inside clique. I saw girls 'dumb themselves down' as they did not want to be seen as smart and hence unattractive to the guys. I saw guys dumb themselves down to and settle on a construction trade in order to be acceptable to the Laestadian norms. There were a few brave souls, usually academically inclined, who managed to get themselves into college and finish their education. Most of my association with ex-Laestadians has been with the academic types. We all have the same comments and observations about Laestadianism, regardless of which group we escaped from. Many of those who left will privately admit to abusive situation which they faced growing up; physical, emotional, sexual etc... Yet going one's own merry way is not without its challenges as it involves a plethora of choices which one never had to face within Laestadian realms as most choices were made for you. Initially for example, I had a very hard time adjusting to making personal choices as I never really was allowed to make up my own mind, let alone verbalize it, while growing up. Margaret's story is essentially all of our stories. Old APAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com