tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post5391783730951529833..comments2023-10-18T02:03:42.145-07:00Comments on LEARNING TO LIVE FREE: Inerrancy? Why?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-41748084361251966782007-02-07T12:20:00.000-08:002007-02-07T12:20:00.000-08:00I guess I did say something about the inerrancy in...I guess I did say something about the inerrancy in my previous post although it was mostly about the development of the biblical canon. I came home and opened a book about the position of the Bible in the Orthodox church, some quotes below (my translation from Finnish):<br><br>"The holy scripture has come into being by the will of God, but not without the assistance of the man. The initiative always comes from God."<br><br>"As the Bible is considered the revelation of the omniscient God, it has the character of inerrancy. The Bible is true, it is right. It must be trusted in, it is not appropriate to doubt its word."<br><br>"The church does not by any means require that the Bible should be read blindly and without any criticism. Especially one must keep in mind that the Bible is whole, and its books and phrases should not be interpreted separately. It is essential to try to grasp the spirit that is behind each of its individual parts."<br><br>"The Bible contains a lot of historical material. --- When using the Bible as a historical source one has to take into account that it is not primarily meant to be a historical book that narrates the fates of a particular nation in a detailed way."<br><br>"The truth of the Bible and the so-called scientific truth do not meet at the same level. Therefore it is not meaningful to juxtapose them or to prove their contradictions"<br><br>"The Bible is true only for a person for whom God exists and is more important than anything in the world. The Bible is true and inerrant in the world of faith, i.e. in the world the church hopes its members still consider theirs."<br><br>"The Bible should always be regarded in connection with the church because the Bible has come to being in the church, it has evolved in its protection. The church has defined the contents and the extent of the Bible, and the church has always used and still uses its according to its own needs. Hence, the Bible belongs 100% to the church."theoforoshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04190193034220386908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-55045594764379009212007-02-07T12:25:00.000-08:002007-02-07T12:25:00.000-08:00So, as an Orthodox, I believe the Bible has come i...So, as an Orthodox, I believe the Bible has come into being by the inspiration of God but through the cooperation of man. It is inerrant in matters of faith, but should not be read as a text book for a science or history class because it was never meant to be one. As an Orthodox Christian my faith in the Bible is closely linked to my faith in the church and the guiding presence of God on earth.theoforoshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04190193034220386908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-78377618281849871812007-02-07T12:34:00.000-08:002007-02-07T12:34:00.000-08:00I read the text behind the religioustolerance.org ...I read the text behind the religioustolerance.org link above. I find the equation of homosexuality and slavery rather illogical, but I wasn't surprised, I had heard it dozens of times before. I guess there are not so many arguments that can be used for their point of view... <br><br>Anyway, the Bible, nor any other part of the Tradition, never considered slavery mandatory. Slavery was just tolerated as it was practiced in the society and the mission of christianity was not to revoke the order of the society but to bring God to people. If slavery was practiced in the same way in our time, it would still not be the primary mission of the church to try to change that. In fact, slavery has not disappeared, it's just been transformed and is well alive among us in many different forms, there are millions of people in our societies without any real freedom.theoforoshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04190193034220386908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-32827985621678631162007-02-07T12:48:00.000-08:002007-02-07T12:48:00.000-08:00By the way, I think the new visitor map is cool! :...By the way, I think the new visitor map is cool! :)theoforoshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04190193034220386908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-56485919333628040222007-02-07T13:13:00.000-08:002007-02-07T13:13:00.000-08:00The visitor map is very cool unless you are from a...The visitor map is very cool unless you are from a locality where it\'s going to be obvious who you are :( Those people are now gonna be scared away...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-54806614942834340862007-02-07T18:41:00.000-08:002007-02-07T18:41:00.000-08:00To me the Bible is a God inspired guide for our li...To me the Bible is a God inspired guide for our lives, teaching us many things about who we are, what we should strive to be, and how we should live our lives -- in the forms of parable, story, or example. I love the Bible and do not read it enough. On the other hand a scientific text or body of knowledge is those facts that are proven, or theories that seem to have significant and compelling evidence indicating some degree or probability of truth. I love science and do not read it enough.<br><br>Methinks a person who cannot accept them both for what they are and instead dwell only on the contradictory elements of lousy science in the Bible and lousy -- call it faith for lack of a better word -- in pure science is probably not secure in either their Christianity or their science!<br><br>I wonder if Adam had to listen to Eve going "Listen, if you HAVE to go hunting AGAIN with the boys, there better be some brontosaurus steak on the barbie tonight."<br><br>Oh I am in a puckish mood tonight...cvowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05363193317516090926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-84856419736400029572007-02-07T21:42:00.000-08:002007-02-07T21:42:00.000-08:00cvow,I also have an equal fascination with both fa...cvow,<br><br>I also have an equal fascination with both faith and science, and find more reasons for them to support each other, rather than contradict. Maybe its what Im looking for? But the more I learn, the more I feel we are indeed in a wonderfully complex world beyond anything we can fathom an explaination for, from every angle. And its beautiful. <br><br>It is too bad when people wish to keep a narrow view of life, regardless of 'new evidence' I guess I am just fine to 'modify' as long as I dont contradict the bible, and Ive prayed a LOT about it. But we never have known everything, and never will. There is SO MUCH to learn about, around us, from our past and EVERYWHERE. How on earth can a person NOT be fascinated by it all and try to encompass as much as we can in our (ok my) little brain, in the short amount of time we are given. I wish I could live 1000 years, and I probably still wouldnt feel like it was enough time to learn everything... that and Id have to wait that long to get to heaven, so never mind :php3noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-28114997701740560592007-02-07T22:48:00.000-08:002007-02-07T22:48:00.000-08:00If according to the Bible life on earth started ar...If according to the Bible life on earth started around 7,000 years ago, why are they finding human remains that are over 120,000 years old.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-24324599584702037732007-02-07T22:53:00.000-08:002007-02-07T22:53:00.000-08:00Unfortunately, even with all our "modern tech...Unfortunately, even with all our "modern technology" we are still only putting forth our "best guess." And does that detail really matter? In terms of Christ's story and Gods love. The important, soul saving stuff.<br><br>(on a completely less serious note: have you ever read The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy trilogy? I believe its in the third or fourth book he talks about that :) We're really the decendants of the leftover insurance salesmen and hairdressers from some faraway galaxy... the original "experiment people" never even made it, but no one was around to know)hp3noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-92213386102707474312007-02-08T04:44:00.000-08:002007-02-08T04:44:00.000-08:00Anonymous, the following three alternatives come t...Anonymous, the following three alternatives come to my mind as a solution to your dilemma:<br><br>-Science is not inerrant and the modern science doesn't provide the last answer to everything, it's developing all the time. Let's wait a couple of decades and we'll probably be laughing at many "scientific truths" they believed in 2007. Maybe we'll also be laughing at the people who believed the methods used in 2007 to determine the age of different objects etc. were reliable?<br><br>OR<br><br>-The conclusion that the Bible says that the world was created about 6000 years ago is wrong, i.e. the Bible doesn't explicitly say that the world was created 6000 years ago. I actually never checked it myself, but I've heard other people say that there are some time gaps in the Bible also after the creation of Adam and Eve, i.e. periods of time about which the Bible doesn't say anything.<br><br>OR<br><br>-The Bible is wrong in claiming that the world was created 6000 years ago. Bible is not meant to be a text book in history after all, but a revelation of God. In the context of that revelation, I can't see why it would be so important how many years ago the world was created.theoforoshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04190193034220386908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-30615804484587450852007-02-08T06:35:00.000-08:002007-02-08T06:35:00.000-08:00I am reading Angels and Demons right now by Dan Br...I am reading Angels and Demons right now by Dan Brown. Its about the science/religion concept. Its interesting! If you haven't read it, its a good book. Same with the Davinci Code. Yah, they are fiction, but good books.Faithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12086359067322870879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-36540104249959558642007-02-08T06:37:00.000-08:002007-02-08T06:37:00.000-08:00Slightly related to the topic of how humans just d...Slightly related to the topic of how humans just don't know and wonderous happenings. I hope this link works. It is about a child prodigy. <br>http://tinyurl.com/yxewot<br>If it doesn't work and you care to post your E-mail,I will be happy to forward the link that way.Ijumpedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04246448196579295253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-55278806051034912772007-02-08T06:48:00.000-08:002007-02-08T06:48:00.000-08:00cvow, imagine us agreeing on something, Amazing! H...cvow, imagine us agreeing on something, Amazing! Here's two gender jokes for your one:<br><br>1.<br>Why was there only bread and wine at The Last Supper?<br>It was a potluck and only men were invited. <br><br>2.<br>Eve was lonely in the garden and asked God to give her a mate. God said yes, but warned her that man, in addition to being wonderful, might be proud, jealous, and violent, and it would be best to let him think he was created first.<br><br>"I won't tell," said Eve.<br><br>"Good. It'll be our secret, then" said God. "Woman to woman."Julie Whitehornhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16921829370327742832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-32141790743620654092007-02-08T07:41:00.000-08:002007-02-08T07:41:00.000-08:00Oh Free, I agree with you on the only thing that m...Oh Free, I agree with you on the only thing that makes any difference. The rest of the issues are just details, no matter how we sojourners want to elevate their importance and blather on, taking this position and that.cvowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05363193317516090926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-23483143945618651602007-02-08T09:23:00.000-08:002007-02-08T09:23:00.000-08:00Very interesting link Free. My opinion would be th...Very interesting link Free. My opinion would be that since the books in the bible were written by humans, there have got to be some words that are mans words, not Gods. I look at the bible as a guide. I do enjoy reading it.<br><br>Another perspective concerning sermons. In the LLC, we were taught that other churches preached mans word because the pastors prepared their speeches. And the preachers at the LLC did not prepare, they relied on God for words. So every word that comes out of the preachers mouth in the pulpit (because he has relied on God for words) are ALL words of God? Ha, I don't believe it. We are humans too. <br><br>Same as saying that the church relies on the Holy Spirit for guidance. Yes, I agree. However, then people could say just about anything and claim it came from the Holy Spirit. Such as the "guidances of the Holy Spirit" I was taught (no makeup, movies, dancing, etc.). I do not believe those to be teachings of the Holy Spirit.Faithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12086359067322870879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-9268742379691195522007-02-08T09:26:00.000-08:002007-02-08T09:26:00.000-08:00I think what it boils down to, as MTH has said bef...I think what it boils down to, as MTH has said before is this: Do we love and trust God with all our heart? And do we love our neighbors as ourselves? God is love.Faithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12086359067322870879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-79966469701936448062007-02-08T09:37:00.000-08:002007-02-08T09:37:00.000-08:00Oh, one more thing. I wonder why there aren't ...Oh, one more thing. I wonder why there aren't any writings from Jesus when he was here?Faithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12086359067322870879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-49379808533848568812007-02-08T11:21:00.000-08:002007-02-08T11:21:00.000-08:00Seems that Elmer was getting all the painting jobs...Seems that Elmer was getting all the painting jobs in town. His secret was that he slightly watered down the paint, giving him an edge on all of this competitors.<br>He finally hit the mother load when he won the bid to paint the outside of a huge church. Realizing that he had made a serious error in his calculations, he decided that he would have to water down the paint more than he had ever watered it down before. Up on the ladder, he was just finishing up the painting job. As he was admiring his work with a smug look of pride, the skies turned dark and an unexpected rain storm moved in. On the ladder, Elmer watched with horror as the paint, far too thinned with water, started washing off of the church! Out of the sky came a lightning bolt, knocking Elmer off the ladder to the ground! When he came too he quickly checked his parts to make sure he was in one piece. He then fell to his knees, begging God for forgiveness for his wrongs. He tearfully asked God what he could do to make up for the error of his ways. Out of the heavens came a booming voice "REPAINT! REPAINT!" As Elmer was about to promise to start on the task he again heard the booming voice..."AND THIN NO MORE!"<br><br>There's my church giggle of the day. Actually told by my pastor at the beginning of his sermon on stewardship!Ijumpedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04246448196579295253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-61550959509522724142007-02-08T12:38:00.000-08:002007-02-08T12:38:00.000-08:00Funny joke ijumped! In response to the previous th...Funny joke ijumped! In response to the previous thread about rebuke. They are each others keepers and they use the church law of Christ for everything. In the LLC we would have been taken in front of the church too if we refused to believe we have wronged. I believe the bible states that if your BROTHER SINS AGAINST YOU, go and show him his faults, then bring two more, then bring it to the church. Since when is a place you choose to go, or what you look like or what kind of music you like a sin against your brother? Just because HE/SHE doesn't like it. <br>BS!Faithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12086359067322870879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-62029008448148796862007-02-08T13:51:00.000-08:002007-02-08T13:51:00.000-08:00Faith,I chuckled when I read your post about how t...Faith,<br>I chuckled when I read your post about how the preachers (OALC in my case) would say they simply opened the Bible at random and spoke on what God gave them that day. I always found it puzzling that the Good Lord always seemed to think we needed yet another diatribe on the Beatitudes. I love the beatitudes, but thought there might have been some other important stuff in the Bible besides them.cvowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05363193317516090926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-19845780167534656992007-02-08T14:27:00.000-08:002007-02-08T14:27:00.000-08:00cvow I love your post from 1/08 at 741pm.cvow I love your post from 1/08 at 741pm.hp3noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-79236762113206457262007-02-08T14:36:00.000-08:002007-02-08T14:36:00.000-08:00Re; Science and Bible The above experiences are gr...Re; Science and Bible<br><br> The above experiences are great<br> if you stick to the spiritual side<br> Any scientific mention in the<br> Bible is pure nonsense viz. 6000<br> year old universe , iron floats<br> on water, sun stops in sky which<br> of course means earth stops <br> rotating etc.<br><br><br> Your utmost faith in science is<br> demonstrated every day as soon<br> as the alarm goes off.<br><br> You turn on the lights ,flip on<br> the hot and cold water ,flush your<br> daily deposit down the toilet {gee<br> I wonder where that goes }, and<br> microwave your break fast .When<br> ready for work , jump into your<br> Hummer, drive down a 4-lane free-<br> way ,take an elevator up, sit at<br> desk ,turn my computer on ,check<br> Free2b. Computer freezes on <br> Free2b ! O here comes the boss !<br> [damn science not always perfect!}<br><br> The next morning upon leaving you<br> look up and spot the Andromeda<br> Galaxy with the naked eye {if you<br> know where to look}.It is 2.3<br> million light years away . In <br> other words light left that galaxy <br> 2.3 million years ago and might be<br> long gone by now.That is one of<br> the closest galaxies . Others are<br> up to 13 billion light years <br> away.<br> <br> With such an enormous discrepancy<br> why was the 6000 year figure even<br> mentioned in the Bible to throw<br> doubts right at the start to the<br> validity of the rest ?<br><br> P.S. Free , I got another of your<br> "buts" after my brilliant all<br> encompassing analysis of and<br> solution to all the problems<br> with belief. {LOL}<br><br> Your "wings theory" does not<br> fly.<br><br> Some atheists could and do<br> exhibit the same character-<br> estics as your true believer<br> as far as "love thy neighbor"<br> is involved .trollnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-74698521651687841482007-02-08T14:45:00.000-08:002007-02-08T14:45:00.000-08:00Agreed, Troll, and I don't see how that refute...Agreed, Troll, and I don't see how that refutes my theory that we all have wings and are capable of (metaphorical) flight. <br>PS: Do you really have a Hummer?! And is this site a PC crasher?Julie Whitehornhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16921829370327742832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-71053139724980978962007-02-09T15:15:00.000-08:002007-02-09T15:15:00.000-08:00Free: No {Just a story}Free: No {Just a story}Trollnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8088717.post-62235089487436561652007-02-10T12:54:00.000-08:002007-02-10T12:54:00.000-08:00Good post and good comments.Inerrancy? No.Why? You...Good post and good comments.<br><br>Inerrancy? No.<br>Why? You said it.<br><br>A personal nightmare for me is to find myself stuck in a conformist town dominated by a religion of the close-minded variety. And my children begin being indoctrinated in the school with that form of religion, their education being short-changed by the bullies' refusal to properly teach important basics like science or history. And when I'd defend my kids' right to a good education, I'd start getting hate and threats sent my way until my family would be driven from the community. Think that wouldn't happen in the US? <a href="http://www.jewsonfirst.org/06b/indianriver.html" rel="nofollow">Think</a> <a href="http://lippard.blogspot.com/2006/12/kearny-high-school-and-david.html" rel="nofollow">again</a>.Ilmarinenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06014881108189832114noreply@blogger.com